tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post5142880520035058966..comments2024-03-08T02:19:40.760-06:00Comments on Tales From The Savage Troll: Steampulp vs. SteampunkR K Atheyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-54854750432124177422011-12-20T09:17:40.555-06:002011-12-20T09:17:40.555-06:00Thanks for the comment, Jonathan.
For those who ...Thanks for the comment, Jonathan. <br /><br />For those who don't know, Dr. Jonathan Jacobs runs Nevermet Press (http://nevermetpress.com/). He provides a venue for SciFi, Fantasy, and SteamPunk stories called Tales from the Ether. I recommend giving it a read.<br /><br />I'm diving back into research mode again. I've found some great stuff on the SteamPunk, Punk, and DIY movements. Expect another article on this subject after New Years.R K Atheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-80359280903514884092011-12-20T00:04:29.908-06:002011-12-20T00:04:29.908-06:00"Steampunk: When Goth's discovered Brown&..."Steampunk: When Goth's discovered Brown" - @jessnevins<br /><br />LOL.. in all "seriousness" though I have to echo the above commenters. Steampunk is not about tearing down society - but more about redefining for yourself. The "punk" in steam is more a reference to a DIY approach to things such fashion, design, technology, and other aesthetics.This may be why you'll read/hear people say "it's not just about putting cogs on things". And.. while I would say that's true, I might also say that putting the "cogs on things" is a symbolic representation that says "Hey - this here thingamabober is steampunk, OK?" It's like a nametag.<br /><br />But I'm not a LARPer or a COSPlay fan - so I can't say that I would look forward to playing dress up at a Con looking like a Mad Hatter (although I might be convinced...). For me Steampunk is about the Story. In gaming - its pulp horror mixed with victorian fantasy. In literature - the same. Zombies? sure. Airships? whynot. Romance? A little - but I know there's a huge fan base of people who are into steampunk erotica. Ray guns? That's pushing it. It's a mixing of genres with lots of potential.<br /><br />It's not an antiestablishment movement that targets "fascism". In fact - some DeiselPunks look pretty friggen fascist already.<br /><br />http://anachro-anarcho.blogspot.com/2011/12/healthy-alternative-to-fascism-or.html<br /><br />don't get me started... <br /><br />(BTW - thanks for the links!)Jonathan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06133232985480734844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-12456025241671682472011-12-19T20:08:52.118-06:002011-12-19T20:08:52.118-06:00Given that the originator of the term meant it to ...Given that the originator of the term meant it to mean what I've always thought that it means, I'm comfortable with the Steam Punk label and will ignore the attempts to hijack it.R K Atheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-76950943235851067722011-12-19T17:22:22.227-06:002011-12-19T17:22:22.227-06:00Dear Troll,
Always good to hear folks thinking abo...Dear Troll,<br />Always good to hear folks thinking about things like this although, as with most things, it never does to think about them too much. Wear out your brains, you know. <br /><br />I'm surprised you learned about Steampulp from my blog; I can't remember using it myself, but someone else may have. Hard to keep track. (Too many words!) I've never had a problem with the term Steampunk itself as I figure the fellow who made the term up in the first place, K. W. Jeter, gets first shot at saying what it means, and in his original letter to Locus magazine way back when he said, 'Personally, I think Victorian fantasies are going to be the next big thing, as long as we can come up with a fitting collective term for Powers, Blaylock and myself. Something based on the appropriate technology of the era; like "steampunks", perhaps.' <br /><br />To me, the key point is that the defining element of the term is centered on "the technology of the era," to which the "punk" appelation was added as playful afterthought. Making punk the defining element misses the point, and demanding that it invariably must be deathly serious social commentary takes the original term and blows it from the mouth of a cannon. I think, at the very least, it puts the cart before the horse. <br /><br />But all of that said, Steampulp is a perfectly fine term, and right now people seem bent on dividing the genre up into Lacepunk, Clockpunk, Dieselpunk, Clockwork Romance, and any number of other subdivisions. I'd say there's plenty of room for Steampulp as well.Frank Chadwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07925901055702288584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-70245543195031318142011-12-19T08:34:41.271-06:002011-12-19T08:34:41.271-06:00Good to hear from you Dr. V.
Up to this point, y...Good to hear from you Dr. V. <br /><br />Up to this point, your experience has been mine. The items labeled Steam Punk have been, for the most part, about a politer society in a simpler technological time with a bit of Aether or Steam magic thrown in for good measure. My problem began when I found other, sympathetic voices to the magazine listed.<br /><br />There are some great Victorian era games: Rippers, Kerberos Club, Deadlands, and Space: 1889 just to name a few. I love each of these settings and had considered each to be Steam Punk. Even Frank Chadwick, the King of Steam, called 1889 a Steam Punk setting. <br /><br />Perhaps I'm making a bit much out of a few out-spoken anarchists. Perhaps they're the ones who hijacked Steam Punk and not the rest of us.<br /><br />(great photo, BTW. It was easy to pick you out)<br /><br />As always, thanks for the feedback.R K Atheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-32868713708978165132011-12-19T07:43:43.498-06:002011-12-19T07:43:43.498-06:00Dear Mr S Troll
I'm a dabbler in Steampunk, a...Dear Mr S Troll<br /><br />I'm a dabbler in Steampunk, and I have to say the impression that you've got from your research most certainly does NOT gel with my personal experiences. It sounds like this Steampunk magazine is run by a small clique who are trying desperately to be "hip" and "edgy", and most certainly do not represent the larger steampunk community.<br /><br />Steampunk is in fact a fairly broad church that prides itself on being inclusive and welcoming to all. The core element is the appeal of a bygone, romanticised age and applying nineteenth century aesthetics to modern day life and technology. The 'punk' element is there, in the form of a rebellion against the ills of the 21st century - mass marketing, rampant consumerism, lack of interpersonal manners.<br /><br />People with far too much time on their hands have tried to argue fine points of definitions of steampunk and it's related genres, in the same way that they've argued what it takes to be a "proper goth" or a "true American". Such people are largely arguing just for the sheer joy they get from hearing their own voices.<br /><br />That's not to say that all the various terms aren't useful, it's just that they all tend to describe elements and flavours of the same overall thing. I think you can still call Space 1889 steampunk, just as well as you can call it Victorian Science Fiction or Steam-Pulp. It's not an either-or proposition, as each descriptor focusses on different elements of the whole.<br /><br />Earlier in the year I attended The Asylum Steampunk Festival at Lincoln, which was my first real taste of the Steampunk subculture. Attendees were a wide range of ages (from greybeards to mere coglings), social backgrounds and levels of dedication. People were there with the most intricately designed and built costumes, my group were there with some hastily cobbled together outfits with bits of brass stuck on. Everyone was welcoming and friendly, we promenaded around the streets, tipping hats to ladies, attending presentations by notable guests and generally partying like it's 1899. Airship pirates rubbed shoulders with redcoated officers of the 3rd Foot & Mouth and members of the Royal Dirigible Corps. The evening musical entertainment ranged from music-hall standards through an eclectic mix of styles to chap-hop. Even at the one genuinely "punk" music gig, my friend DeadEdd spent the evening moshing in top-hat and tails and still managed to arrive back at the hotel with an impeccably tied cravat. Over the whole weekend, nobody to my knowledge was puked on, only one person became the worse for drink and was ejected swiftly and silently by the security staff, and despite several hundred steampunks descending on the town, many of whom were openly carrying replica firearms and swords, I didn't once see a single policeman or hear of any trouble. Everyone was simply Splendid.<br /><br />The point I'm trying to make is that to most of the people I met at The Asylum would have no interest at all in the exclusive, anarchistic steampunk that the magazine you found seems to subscribe to. And so while you're free to label your games and writing however you want, please don't judge and reject all things steampunk based on the dickishness of a vocal minority.<br /><br />http://steampunk.synthasite.com/resources/_MG_9298.jpg.opt712x350o0,0s712x350.jpg<br />(Back row, just to the left of third pillar from the left - that slight smudge of white is my pith helmet.)Dr Vesuviushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05255420207375021875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-33506130482070181062011-12-19T06:09:33.538-06:002011-12-19T06:09:33.538-06:00I played Space: 1889 for years. I love that settin...I played Space: 1889 for years. I love that setting. I was ecstatic when it came to Savage Worlds. Since that's called a SteamPunk setting, I just assumed that's what SteamPunk was. Apparently I've been living a lie all these years. <br /><br />It's true that most of my Victorian characters flow against the societal grain. We are much more egalitarian these days and my characters reflected that. Red Captain Robert Anderson, Sky Captain of Mars, left Earth in search of adventure. Is that Punk or Pulp. My detector needle points to Pulp. True, he fought the Belgians and their raping of Mars. That might be considered Punk but it seems more Pulpy.<br /><br />I guess my problem with Punk is that is seems more like a character trait than a genre. That said, Pulp was more of a delivery medium than a genre, but gamers have effectively taken over the word.R K Atheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-40087376204609237102011-12-18T21:51:09.067-06:002011-12-18T21:51:09.067-06:00I like the term Steam Pulp. I'd say Steam Pulp...I like the term Steam Pulp. I'd say Steam Pulp (and Steam Fantasy) have been more popular then Steam Punk almost from the beginning - at least in literature and RPG's. Music and visual stuff has favoured the punk a little more.<br /><br />Good luck changing the name, though.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-56285419367303592702011-12-18T18:33:10.503-06:002011-12-18T18:33:10.503-06:00Oh man I was just thinking about what Savage World...Oh man I was just thinking about what Savage Worlds stats for the Krampus would be like. I can't wait to see what you come up with! I may have to inject him into my Deadlands game.Radical Anshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04568907670834710464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-68427247748867315662011-12-18T13:43:55.466-06:002011-12-18T13:43:55.466-06:00Not exactly the scathing retort I expected but the...Not exactly the scathing retort I expected but the comment is appreciated all the same.R K Atheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08700663060678306110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2756566778295028541.post-67824226248206131342011-12-18T13:23:05.158-06:002011-12-18T13:23:05.158-06:00comment dudecomment dudeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com